tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post6792573182782943166..comments2023-07-20T02:29:50.260-07:00Comments on Amy's Opinions: On Lying.Amyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02341215644931249957noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-41302942328963386962015-03-26T11:43:39.723-07:002015-03-26T11:43:39.723-07:00Thank you Joanne. It was a tough time, but we all ...Thank you Joanne. It was a tough time, but we all came through it happier people.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-87183389089462050182015-03-25T15:10:02.255-07:002015-03-25T15:10:02.255-07:00Falling out from a divocre must always be taken in...Falling out from a divocre must always be taken into consideration, especially among those who are often at the receiving end of it, such as the children. That should be part of the process of analysis and assessement, not just in terms of counselling, but also in terms of material support. I believe divorce should ultimately be made equitable for everyone. In any way, thanks for sharing that, Amy! All the best to you!<br /><br /><a href="https://kurtzandblum.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/caseload-matters/" rel="nofollow">Joanne Krueger @ Kurtz & Blum</a> <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09205065457263761390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-4052274677546549882015-03-10T12:34:15.747-07:002015-03-10T12:34:15.747-07:00I'm not an evangelist for atheism either. I...I'm not an evangelist for atheism either. I'm an evangelist for the truth. Not being able to disprove something doesn't mean it's not real. The obvious case being Santa. I can't really disprove him, but does that mean that an intelligent person looking at all the possibilities shouldn't side with the argument against him?<br /><br />But you have to admit, that it's interesting that in a blog post regarding lying and truth telling, you're not interested in trying to get to the truth regarding what is likely the biggest lie of all. The one lie that has caused more death, misery, war, and internal personal suffering than any other. $20 ain't got nothin' on that. <br /><br />Thanks for (patiently) reading and responding. I appreciate it. Though I'm sure it's exasperating. Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01487336996366191684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-6163261410023369012015-03-10T12:05:22.560-07:002015-03-10T12:05:22.560-07:00I'm saying I don't know for sure if it'...I'm saying I don't know for sure if it's a lie or not. I can't prove there is a god, and I can't prove there isn't. You know for sure. I don't expect to convince you not to believe what you believe, just like I don't expect to convince anyone else either. So I prefer not to waste the energy. I am not an evangelist for atheism. It's just not my bag.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-78458652781932393382015-03-10T08:30:58.835-07:002015-03-10T08:30:58.835-07:00Penny and I had a conversation when we first start...Penny and I had a conversation when we first started dating. I was already in full-on atheist mode and she was much closer to your agnostic point of view, so that obviously colored our perspectives. She asked me, similar to your question, "who am I to deny people the comfort of their belief?" My response was that twofold. First, people take comfort in alcohol, or heroin, or eating too much. Now, I know plenty of of functional alcoholics, addicts, and obese people. But, if I genuinely care about them, is it simply OK for me to ignore that they are, in reality, hurting themselves? I mean, after all, they're providing comfort for themselves. <br /><br />Religion is the same, if not in some ways worse. You're telling people that it's OK to take comfort in a lie. Maybe there's a "higher power" and maybe there isn't, but we KNOW, that there's no God of the bible. We KNOW that Jesus isn't sitting on a cloud just waiting for the right time to show up again. In psychiatry this is called a fixed false belief. A delusion. If someone says the believe in Jesus we allow it, and we allow them to act in accordance with that belief, to the point where they don't have to pay taxes. But if someone says they ARE Jesus we put them away. What's the difference?<br /><br />If you suddenly found out that your husband and the father of your children was actually living a double life, that he had an entire second family complete with wife and children, and had been living that way for a decade, would that change how you feel about him? Nothing else has changed: you still see him the same amount of hours per day, he's still a good provider, husband, father, but had been lying this entire time, would that change how you feel? My guess is yes. This speaks to not only the very essences of your post about lying, but the question of religious delusion. It's bad, because it's false. <br /><br />You write that you never try to lie, but you're OK with people creating, believing, and living under the biggest lie of all. That there's a reward in the afterlife for them if they just eat the right foods, say prayers exactly the right way, hate the right people. Beliefs, no matter how comforting to the individual, DO lead to actions, and religious actions, but design, are intended to include some while intentionally excluding others, that is non-believers. There's no such thing as benign faith. <br /><br />Of course, I'm being intentionally provocative here, but I think my point is valid. Allowing someone to take comfort in a delusion isn't curing any root problems, it's just burying them under a comforter. Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01487336996366191684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-47103728286246286822015-03-08T20:54:31.810-07:002015-03-08T20:54:31.810-07:00I am an atheist too, but I am non-dogmatic about i...I am an atheist too, but I am non-dogmatic about it. What I mean is that, as an atheist I strongly believe no one knows for sure about that aspect of our existence which may or may not transcend our physical form, and any higher beings that may or may not exist. Mine is an almost agnostic point of view, just because I am highly skeptical of any kind of dogma, even one that denies the possibility of a god. I think that religion makes a lot of people feel better about their lives and their place in the world, and who am I to deny them that comfort? (As long as they're not going around hurting anyone, obviously.) As far as white lies go, yes, I can see the truth in what you're saying, BUT, I think a white lie can be replaced by a tactful non-response in most cases. I would never claim I never lie. I can only claim that I try not to.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-8880920691106020432015-03-08T18:39:27.856-07:002015-03-08T18:39:27.856-07:00My family is Jewish. I had a bar mitzvah, but will...My family is Jewish. I had a bar mitzvah, but will probably be the last to do so because Penny was raised non-practicing Christian and we're both atheists. <br /><br />I can definitely see that false witness is interpreted as lying in general. <br /><br />Interesting that it's part of the catechism. The ten commandments, as you probably know, were given to Moses as the laws for the Jewish people; don't kill, steal (aka common sense), plant two kinds of seeds in the same field ... how to sacrifice an animal to the Lord so as not to piss him off, and other randomness that was mostly intended to make life easier for Semitic people living in the desert two and half centuries ago. <br /><br />I definitely agree that lying is almost always a bad idea. But, IMO, there are definitely grey areas where sparing someone's feelings, or simply avoiding a much longer story that doesn't need to be reveled, is truly the better way to go. <br />Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01487336996366191684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-7097233046059283182015-03-08T09:54:26.540-07:002015-03-08T09:54:26.540-07:00Maybe it depends on the translation. Thou shall no...Maybe it depends on the translation. Thou shall not bear false witness is interpreted to mean not to lie in the Catholic tradition I was raised in. Are you Catholic? Because the ten commandments are in the catechism.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-54214070612327483132015-03-07T08:27:20.267-08:002015-03-07T08:27:20.267-08:00Uh, not to pick nits, but thou shalt not lie isn&#...Uh, not to pick nits, but thou shalt not lie isn't one of the commandments. And as a a Catholic, technically, you wouldn't have been bound by ANY of the commandments since they were intended for Jews. <br /><br />BTW, Have you read Sam Harris' book, Lying? Interesting stuff.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01487336996366191684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-18010678138625619402015-02-28T06:28:23.497-08:002015-02-28T06:28:23.497-08:00Thank you John for such a kind comment.Thank you John for such a kind comment.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-17222964198894642932015-02-27T22:27:23.824-08:002015-02-27T22:27:23.824-08:00We've probably all lied a one time or another....We've probably all lied a one time or another. But I also believe in forgiveness. Once we've confessed and have been forgiven by others, I think it's important we forgive ourselves. One of the beautiful thinks about confession is that it includes "a firm purpose of amendment." (Sound familiar?) Not that we always follow through - we'e human, dammit, and not perfect. But we're still worthy of forgiveness "seven times seventy" times, i.e.,an infinite number. If we're willing to forgive one another, we ought to be able to forgive ;ourselves. Thanks, Amy, for an honest, courageous, and helpful post. JPJohn Paul McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12426192694972130205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-17124757650249652172015-02-27T21:30:41.577-08:002015-02-27T21:30:41.577-08:00Thank you Aimie!Thank you Aimie!Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-22118949218782918152015-02-27T19:41:40.197-08:002015-02-27T19:41:40.197-08:00Beautifully written, Amy!!!Beautifully written, Amy!!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11129606761129217455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-91718453111842213192015-02-27T16:06:47.134-08:002015-02-27T16:06:47.134-08:00Ah, the shame spiral! Easy to get in, hard to get ...Ah, the shame spiral! Easy to get in, hard to get out.Amy Kathleen Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354811275670786851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2093240493645584939.post-38754210726299773142015-02-27T14:28:25.070-08:002015-02-27T14:28:25.070-08:00Aaargh! Amy, you stabbed me in the heart. I still ...Aaargh! Amy, you stabbed me in the heart. I still get serious pangs of humiliation and guilt over a couple of lies I told my dad when I was a teenager...and my dad passed away 33 years ago. The really horrible thing about lying (or any mean act we might commit when young) is that the memory might be successfully suppressed for a long time, but eventually, if we live long enough, the Universe starts forcing those memories to the surface. It feels just as bad, if not worse, when we remember years later.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.com